Photo courtesy of Bob Rok
Greenlights Music band member Bob Rok collaborated with his crew to create a provocative project called “Thoughts Becoming Music.” The albums’ title is an indicator of its musical content. A mere thought is the seed needed to cultivate art, but Rok challenges the listener to think far beyond thinking to only create in the musical form. The topics covered throughout “Thoughts” call for musings that matter personally, politically, and socially.
Thoughts Becoming Music is produced entirely by RP of Greenlights Music, is mixed by DJ ALO, and features appearances by Greenlights Music and The Microphone Misfitz. The 14-track album comes to us courtesy of Good Coffee Entertainment.
Bob Rok talked to The Real Hip-Hop about why he believes violence is the only way to bring about societal change, why money is a scam, working with Greenlights Music and DJ ALO, and their new album, Thoughts Becoming Music.
TRHH: What’s the meaning behind the title of the album, Thoughts Becoming Music?
Bob Rok: I wanted to make a project about the artistic and creative process of how ideas turn into full songs and full statements about concepts, places, people, and in this case a country and the moment that we’re living in right now. So, I think that was my goal in capturing that exact theme. Kind of like why something becomes important enough to become its own song. How a thought starts out I think is somebody who is naturally very curious. I think that really helps if you are trying to flesh out a stronger theme for a full project.
You can take emphasis away from trying to make things fit together that don’t and instead focus on guiding the audience through the process of how somebody can zero in on a bunch of different things, and put them together in a thoughtful way that people will actually understand sonically. And then also that they’re hopefully engrossed into the process and the explanation that there doesn’t really need to be an emphasis on what the connection is, or does this all have double meaning. It’s like, no, this is like a mixtape that’s happening right now and and I wouldn’t advise anybody to listen to it separately.
TRHH: That’s one of the things I really enjoyed about the album was the transitions from one song to the next. Was it RP that sequenced the album?
Bob Rok: So, RP did all of the beats, and then I did the writing, and I’m right now working on a project with ALO, a follow up to an album we did called Memory Lane. So, he was like, “What are you working on now?” and I showed him all the stuff that we were putting together and he’s like, “Oh, you’re thinking of this as a mixtape?” I said, “Absolutely,” and he’s like, “Okay, cool.” So, then him and RP started working with each other and they’re kind of like bouncing ideas back and forth, going to each other’s place to kind of show what the mixes are, and then he started mixing everything together and kind of like pitched that idea like, “If you’re gonna do it as a tape, then let’s treat it the same way we would as if we were putting together a bunch of songs from like a bunch of different artists in the way that you might hear something getting passed to you back in the cassette days.”
So, like thematically sound wise and taking small aspects of the previous song to help intro the next song was incredibly mindful choices from RP and ALO, and I think that this is some of their best work. When both of those forces come together it was great to just have both of those people in the room who I’ve worked with separately extensively and who I met both of them at the same time. It’s crazy what they can do when they put their forces together and I think it came out as one of the stronger projects that I’ve ever had my name attached to.
TRHH: The artwork for Thoughts Becoming Music is really dope. Who came up with the cover art?
Bob Rok: I thought of the artwork from that Roots project…
TRHH: Phrenology.
Bob Rok: Exactly, Phrenology. A friend of mine, DJ MAR, and I really used to listen to in the early aughts like a lot. That artwork, I loved it so much because I love things that are simplified but incredibly detailed. Because if you’re selling a physical product to somebody at some point they’re going to be holding it in their hand and they’re just going to be looking at it. At first glance it’s just like incredibly simple, but as you start to kind of like make the connection I’m getting you to think, I’m getting you to put some thought behind each one of the images, and kind of I’m having another conversation with the audience from that.
The artwork was done by my friend Randy Cochran who I’ve collaborated with him on The Automat, he did the cover for my first album Poverty in Color. He is an artist in his own right and somebody who I can come to with a little like mock up and showing kind of like what I’m thinking about, and definitely he knew that album as well because he’s a huge fan of Hip-Hop. We just had a bunch of conversations and then he kind of ran off and started coming up with stuff.
He shows me the direction that he’s going in and I’m like, “Yes, yes! You’re nailing it!” I just said, “I want it to be super simple pictograms like that you could just kind of read it without having there be many words.” And that is sticking to that theme again — it’s kind of like how through thinking our thoughts attach meaning to images so that there’s a key there to guide them through what it basically means. But I think when you’re writing projects like this people interpret what you’re saying and the same thing goes with the imagery.
People are interpreting what each one of the pictures means and their interpretation is going to be slightly different and a slightly different story than the person that’s next to them because those are their thoughts and that’s how they’re interpreting it. And of course, they’re associating it to their own experiences and to other things. Hopefully people are kind of like, “Oh yeah, I see a little reference there of kind of paying homage to the people who laid a stronger foundation to make this type of creativity possible in the first place.”
TRHH: The song “Enchanted or Possessed” is a different topic for Hip-Hop music. What inspired you to come up with the concept of falling in love with a witch?
Bob Rok: Absolutely. The insanity of human beings having relationships with each other, especially that just lasts like a really, really, really long time. And it’s just people independently who previously did not know each other, who enter into this contract with each other, unified their lives, they’ve combined all their finances, all of their social relationships and everything is completely intertwined, and then you just see how it goes! It could be magical, it could be as beautiful as nature, it could go along smoothly, or it could become a complete disaster and ruin your life, and you now come apart at the seams. Even for atheists it is a leap of faith. It is an example and a practice of faith that is still taking place in contemporary society that people don’t have a huge problem with necessarily. And kind of like everybody can admit it — it’s a little crazy to do that.
I thought an apt comparison is writing a fun song where you’re falling in love with a witch and all your friends are kind of trying to warn you off, and you’re going into the complete opposite direction. You’re like, “I don’t like labels, but I think this is going well!” And instead all this crazy shit is happening as this guy gets deeper and deeper into literal witch culture, that I really had a lot of fun researching what it is. Because I had a very boilerplate Halloween costume understanding of witchcraft.
As I delved deeper into it I’m like, “Oh there’s actually a lot of really interesting and very lyrical phrases and ideas that are in this culture.” I combined these two ideas and go in on this concept of falling in love with the witch. Always with humor that I incorporate into music, I still want to it be there hand in hand with craft. Meaning that like Lonely Island — incredibly hilarious guys. I listen to their podcast all the time and I think they’re really funny, but that’s an example of where the comedy is leading the tone and the conversation in that song, versus I think it can be done in a way where you’re displaying both things at the same time. It’s not so jokey, but it’s funny. Because I’m not too serious to write something like that, which I think is needed to establish a cleaner line there for variation where somebody could take a concept or a song and it be completely fine. You don’t have to look into the camera per se — you can King of the Hill it and write human ideas.
TRHH: You have a song called “Hands” where you say, “Money is a scam and a curse upon the land.” How is money a scam and a curse?
Bob Rok: For the very reason that right now it’s creating a lot of artificial scarcity in the world. And although we’ve established this bartering system from a really long time ago, I would say it’s not going well [laughs]! There’s plenty of resources to go around and we don’t really need to be doing this anymore and we’re really beholden to no one. I think part of what we’re experiencing right now is that you and I are part of an old world and we’re in a moment where a new world is being born and imagined, and we couldn’t possibly wrap our heads around I think what the world will look like when we leave it.
That’s the lingering idea of like right now we’re in a moment of history where there are people in the world who the only reason that they’re able to do what they’re doing is because they have a lot of money. They’re not being prosecuted and taking any responsibility for their crimes that they’re committing. They are outright aligning themselves with Nazis, white supremacists, and fascist movements. The only reason that they are not condemned by society is because they have money.
Because they have enough money to openly show the hatred and corruption that they discuss everything in. And then also just like just taking drugs, and lying, and not taking responsibility for anything that you’re doing. It’s perverse and it’s because they’re rich. If they were regular people making regular money like the rest of us they wouldn’t get away with any of this! They would get fired from Petco. It’s the perverse thing that has corrupted our society in our modern time, and hopefully it’s a lesson that I think is going to be taught at a later time.
Unfortunately, we’re the ones right now that have to take in the consequence of going through it and proving why it’s a curse upon the land. Proving how perverse this can get for everybody and I think the escalation is astounding. More and more people every day are waking up to that reality that also you’re not separated from it, you’re not shielded from it. If you don’t have enough money to protect yourself from these things, from the world, then you’re not living in the same reality that these people are. It absolutely turns my stomach every single day.
TRHH: Same here, bro. I feel like it’s like living in a nightmare over and over again.
Bob Rok: I think being gaudy is kind of tacky, but I don’t really give a shit. If you make like two million dollars a year I think you’re a scrappy up and comer, I don’t care what you’re doing. The discussion is the nuance whereas like do you still feel comfortable living in this? Do you still feel comfortable functioning in this? Do you still feel safe when you go to places? My wife and I were just in Seattle visiting the city, I got to go to a rock club over there, I had a really good time.
And then we were walking on the waterfront, which is almost like a carnival aspect to it — there are barkers, there are mimes, people doing those caricature drawings, and just things that you won’t necessarily see in Chicago. We walked the entire thing and then we walked into the city and the week after that I got back and this vet was shot by this guy at that very spot where we were not a week before that in Seattle, by this guy that claimed that he was doing stolen valor. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that?
TRHH: I saw it.
Bob Rok: He shot this man who was an actual vet and this guy just felt empowered to carry out that violence against this man over what? Over this culture and American ideology of the proximity to how close you are to this military and military culture. I have so many relatives in the military, and who work in government and that pipeline is there. For people who like live in the middle of nowhere in other states, who don’t come into contact with people who are different from them, their perception of the world is very different and small. It’s crazy to me because they’re also being locked out, and whether they realize it or not they’re being locked out of experiences that aren’t afforded to them, because they’re being isolated by their lack of wealth.
TRHH: True. On the song “Working Up The Nerve” you suggest sitting back and watching the world burn. Do you believe there is nothing that the people can do to change the world?
Bob Rok: Unfortunately, I think that the only thing that I’ve seen demonstrated as a constant throughout history is that the powerful only respond to being scared of the people that they’re trying to govern. I think that the only way to make rich people scared is to kill them, which sounds extreme, it sounds very violent and I’m certainly not endorsing the action, but that is what I’m observing. Violence in general seems to organize people and that also observing violence in modern society has been the catalyst for the largest movements of our time. When George Floyd was murdered by the police there was a huge outcry from the people, there was huge protests, there was such a demand for justice and such a movement throughout the entire country in many cities, including Chicago, that it forced the police to hold this guy accountable.
That didn’t change the system necessarily and they kind of tried to go back on it as much as possible. And then of course the media and white supremacists just as much as they could they tried to demonize this guy as much as possible, as if being a flawed human being stripped you of your right to exist or to have due process. The only reason that any of that happened is because there was a large outcry and I’m not too precious to say that some shit had to be burned down. Some people had to be scared for their physical safety.
If I remember correctly there was a police station that was burned down during that process and just crazy protests that happened throughout the city. My younger brother is the head of security at the Riverwalk across from Merchandise Mart and he was just getting the craziest footage. He has two little kids and I was just like, “That’s crazy that you’re down there.” They shut the bridges on the people and everything, and the police certainly came out and they were ready to incite violence when they were good and prepared to do so, and also inciting it in many instances.
Lots of weird shit that was happening was getting captured for the first time in history because everybody has a camera in their pocket. It’s hard to hide from that accountability. So, to answer your question, I hate that that seems to be the only way, but to me that’s been demonstrated over and over again throughout history, and it’s been the most consistent motivation for anything to change in a meaningful way that is for the people.
TRHH: What do you hope to achieve with Thoughts Becoming Music?
Bob Rok: I really want people to start thinking about what they’re thinking about. I want them to think about their thoughts, I want them to think about how they’re processing information. I want them to think about why they are aligned to the social norms that they are prescribed to in society, and why these things are so important to them, what are the origins of those things, where did they come from?
I want people to think more critically about their existence and about what their government should be functioning as for them as a service. As a tool for the people that is funded with your tax money, that is funded with your labor, that absolutely has outcomes that affect your life. I want people to think about who they’re rallying behind and why it’s so important for them to like the people that are representing them. That’s been a bait and switch for such a long time. I don’t give a shit if you’re married or what you’re fucking dogs name is, make the fucking government work!
It doesn’t need to be precious, we’re not friends I’m your fucking boss! I give you millions and billions of dollars every year and you make the government work, you make the fucking roads work, you make public transportation smooth, you make an economy that works, you make things that are safe. It’s not fucking brain science! It’s such a crazy thing and I think a lot of it comes from the fact that people are consuming things thoughtlessly, they are in mechanical mode, and especially, I’ve absolutely done this, we all are hiding at work.
We all get ourselves into something and kind of use that as a way to shield ourselves from the reality of what’s going on. We attach a lot of our morality to work — having a job, serving a purpose in society. If you’re doing that, again, it leads back to our earlier discussion that you’re sort of absolved of taking your responsibility over, not only your place in society, but how society should be for everybody.
Purchase: Bob Rok + Greenlights Music + DJ ALO – Thoughts Becoming Music