Photo courtesy of Life Ent.
Three artists from three different locations collaborated for a project that they believe is the antidote for Hip-Hop’s ailments. “Remedy” is an album created by emcees Da Cleaver (New York) and Space Kase (Wisconsin), and producer Restless M.I.N.D. (Netherlands). The release is custom fitted for consumers of current day boom bap.
Remedy is a joint venture between Life Ent., TwoFace Media, and East Garden. The 12-track album is produced entirely by Restless M.I.N.D.
The Real Hip-Hop talked to Da Cleaver and Space Kase about the importance of their legacies, the backlash against boom bap, working with producer Restless M.I.N.D., and their new album, Remedy.
TRHH: How’d you guys get together to decide to do Remedy?
Space Kase: We were both in this collaborative group – a collective of emcees and producers from all over the world called the Global Rap Revolution. I don’t know exactly how many artists there were, but there were a lot. Some came and some went, but it was like Da Cleaver, Restless M.I.N.D. and myself, we were three of the ones who just clicked. We started doing some work together on the side and shit like that and we always kept in touch. The Remedy project was something we wanted to do for a while. It was something that we worked on for a while, too. So, that’s pretty much the back story.
Da Cleaver: It was a collaborative compilation. It was artists from everywhere like England, France, and mostly a lot of United States artists, that’s how we all linked up. Restless being from the Netherlands, he was contributing beats to it and we made a few records for it and that chemistry was just there. So, we we went forth with putting this project together.
TRHH: What was the process like doing Remedy with everyone being in different locations?
Da Cleaver: Everything through e-mail, just keeping in touch like that. This project was actually started side by side with my solo album Underground Crown. In 2020 the pieces were forming together. We had made a few records for it and then I went on with the Underground Crown. I focused on the solo album, so, this one was on the shelf for a bit.
TRHH: Why’d you title it Remedy?
Da Cleaver: I don’t know. It just came to me. I don’t know, I even forgot. Unless Space remembers, but I freaking forgot.
Space Kase: [Laughs] There were a couple other names that were thrown in the mix, but for the most part they were all taken. I think the theme behind it was just there’s a lot of fucking shitty music out there, a lot of shitty Hip-Hop, and I think it was like “this is a little more rooted in Hip-Hop.” It’s not modernized, it’s not like the shit you hear on the radio, this is cultural Hip-Hop in a sense. Not to sound too fucking generic, but Remedy is for the folks who are sick of hearing all the trap shit, the modern fucking illness and disease that floods the airwaves [laughs]. I think if I remember correctly that was kind of the theme of Remedy and that’s how we found it was a good name to stick with and good title to fucking run with.
TRHH: Cleaver, on the song “Sundown” you say “boom bap never died.” Why do you believe that some people think boom bap is dead?
Da Cleaver: Even in the new wave with the drumless they feel like they’re taking over and they kind of downplayed the drum. The younger cats talk shit about it. I even heard they call it “unc music” or some shit like that. Like,“turn that unc music off” or whatever. That’s what I kind of said because that’s the essence of it and it’s always raw and the drums will always be there. I said “everybody comes back to the underground.”
“Sometimes they use the underground to make a comeback/That shit is wack,” Rampage said that. So, a lot of artists trying to rejuvenate themselves and come into the underground with it, so, that’s why I said “boom bap never died, the fuck is wrong with y’all.” I said that before that line about “How they try to duplicate the formula, but we’re on to ‘ya/Boom bap never died, the fuck is wrong with ‘ya.”
TRHH: Who is the guy that went viral with the unc shit? Did you see that?
Da Cleaver: Nah.
TRHH: It was a white producer…
Da Cleaver: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I know what you’re talking about. But now these guys are so dime a dozen now that you don’t even know. They’re famous for like a minute. That was his 15 minutes there, but I know who you’re talking about.
TRHH: He’s a trap music producer I’ve never heard of, but he was asked what’s the most overrated thing or whatever in Hip-Hop and he was like “Boom bap, soul music samples. Get out of here with that unc shit.”
Space Kase: [Laughs] That’s very specific, man, Jesus.
TRHH: But it’s to me, blasphemous because how do you even get to trap music without that shit? It’s the foundation for so many decades. What is Hip-Hop without soul music?
Space Kase: Right.
Da Cleaver: People aren’t studious or do their homework nowadays. Everybody knows it.
Space Kase: I know a lot of people bring up the generations and shit like that, but I mean, they’re not wrong. I didn’t necessarily grow up on soul music, but still I mean that’s the era that I was brought up in. Whereas with a lot of these younger cats, they literally grow up on trap. They grow up on the more modern style music, so, it’s like, not only do they not know the history but they don’t really care, because they don’t have to. I mean, the lack of respect, the lack of appreciation. I don’t even know how many times I’ve heard modern rappers talking about “fucking geezer rap” or just talking down on the old school shit. I don’t know, man, it’s crazy.
Da Cleaver: They praised the artists before, now they just trash them.
TRHH: I think that’s why we need gatekeepers — the right gatekeepers. They don’t have to like old shit, but they should respect it. I don’t like trap music at all, I’m not going to sit here and diss it though. That’s their thing, you go at it! It sounds bad to my ears, but I’m almost 50 years old. I think the problem is the disrespect. You can say you’re not a fan of boom bap without going “get that unc shit out of here.” You could you could say, “well that’s not my thing, that’s before my time.”
I think there needs to be some level of respect. My introduction to Hip-Hop was Sugar Hill Gang. I’m like 4 years old and my mother had “Rapper’s Delight” and the “The Breaks” by Kurtis Blow — that’s my introduction. Kurtis Blow and Sugar Hill sounded crazy when Rakim came out. That’s okay though, I understand things evolve, but I respect it all. That’s the missing element — respect the people that paved the way for you.
Da Cleaver: Yeah, yeah. I didn’t grow up with it either, but I fell in love with Parliament Funkadelic and stuff like that. That’s probably the best thing about streaming platforms is that you can go back in time and go through all of their discography and dig deep into it and listen to that shit. That’s something that I’ve picked up along the way, but because of Hip-Hop. When Dr.Dre had the Funkadelic shirt in the Dre Day video and he was pointing to it, it made me curious as a kid. I’m like, “What is that?” I was introduced by Naughty By Nature, Das Efx, that was what got me into it. But then I always went back.
TRHH: That’s it, and you could see the lineage. Who would you say is the trap influence? Is Lil’ Wayne their guy that they stem from? I don’t know. Chief Keef?
Da Cleaver: Probably the influence, but that style probably came in around 2010s, around there.
Space Kase: Yeah, I would credit Lil’ Wayne, and maybe it’s just because he was my introduction into it. At the time, when I heard little Wayne he was a little bit Hip-Hop, but he was also a little modernized. He was known for his metaphors and bringing in the trap music shit. And then all of a sudden I feel everybody was trying to be a Lil’ Wayne. Everybody was trying to use those style beats, at least those style metaphors and bars, because it was all punchline. I feel like when Drake first came out his style it was almost a fucking spitting image of Lil’ Wayne. And then Drake kind of blew up and became the big thing.
I feel Drake is still the big thing, but I’m not necessarily in that whole world, so I’m not sure. But you hear all the names and I don’t really know where they sit on the spectrum, but someone was just talking about 21 Savage the other day. DaBaby, he’s another one. That one dude Megan Thee Stallion [laughs]. I know the names. I got daughters and one of my daughters listens to some of that shit, too. She’s into the fucking Ice Spice, but I think that’s more pop music than anything else, so, it might be getting off the topic.
Da Cleaver: I feel 2018-19 was the turn. More like the Griselda, but that’s the sound that’s being imitated now how these youngins took to the trap and the drill and all that stuff. Now everybody’s doing that coke rap shit with the drumless. But that style was the turning for all that commercial shit dying out and it going back to the underground.
Space Kase: Griselda came along and I was impressed, bro. Because it’s boom bap, but it’s slower. I think one reason why a lot of people now really fucked with Griselda shit is because they were doing boom bap beats, but it was at the same tempo as the trap beats — really slow. The 77 beats per minute and lower, which is that trap shit. Even The Dirty South shit, so I think that’s why that hit, but it’s cool that it did because it really opened the doors again for boom bap.
Da Cleaver: Definitely. Which goes back to that Sundown line, “boom bap never died, what the fuck is wrong with ‘ya.”
TRHH: One of the things that you guys did on the album that doesn’t get done anymore is the “Shout Outs.” That was such an integral part of golden era Hip-Hop. Why’d you decide to bring the shout out back?
Space Kase: That was Cleaver’s idea. Da Cleaver wanted to put a shout out track on there and I loved it, man. I’m all about that shit. Through my whole fucking path through music I’ve always had a tight crew of other artists and shit like that. We appreciate each other, so, we’re always about giving each other shout outs and shit like that. We reference each other through a lot of our material — references that people won’t understand, but we understand. So, the Shout Outs track, man, I love it.
I love it when people do that because I know Da Cleaver, he references a lot of the classic shit a lot, and that’s something that they used to do in the old cassettes, old CD’s, you would get the thank you section. You would be able to read the thank you section from a lot of these artists, but it’s like now with the streaming era you don’t really get that. So, I really like it when people do the thank yous and shout outs in musical form, because it’s just cool, man. It’s nice being able to spread that love and appreciation and see it done. So, that was all Cleaver’s idea.
Da Cleaver: Word. And the worst problem is that I still missed some people too and shit. I left the studio like “I didn’t add this person, that person” but it is what it is, man. It’s all love.
Space Kase: Hopefully no one minds [laughs].
TRHH: “Interlude” is the best beat on the album to me; why didn’t anyone rhyme on it?
Da Cleaver: Yo, Restless, wake your ass up, you got a question [laughs]. That’s funny because when we first dropped the album a few people DM’d me about that like, “How come nobody rhymed on that shit? The shit was so ill!” It was just Restless’ spotlight. That was the spotlight for him, but maybe we’ll flip it some other time.
Space Kase: Right. I got a lot of feedback about that too, man. Like, “Man, that beat is so dope. Was it off limits? Was is it a fucking sacred beat or what?” I was like, “Yeah, we couldn’t touch that one otherwise we would be disciplined.” But yeah, maybe we might have to put that one to use.
Da Cleaver: I got it, he just said it, that’s crazy. A lot of people wanted us to rhyme on that.
TRHH: There’s a song on the album called “Legacy” and it makes me think of the Mike Tyson interview where he was talking to the little girl about ego. Did you guys see that?
Da Cleaver: Okay, that was a recent one, right? I think I did see that.
TRHH: Yeah. I’m paraphrasing but the question was about his legacy and he’s like, “What do I care? I’m going to be dead. I’m going to be dust. Who gives a fuck?” He was like, “Do you think people are going to care about me when I’m dead?” It was startling because he was talking to a little girl, but it’s Mike Tyson, so, it’s real [laughs]. My question is, how important is your legacy and what does that look like to the both of you?
Space Kase: For me personally, I’m a family man, so I guess it means more to my family than anything. Musically, I don’t know. I’m more or less a local artist. I’ve done the tours and I’ve done all that stuff, but my roots are here. And not just myself, like I said, we got a tight a little circle up here and we’ve done a lot. It’s cool because when people talk about us up here musically they talk about us in a positive manner. Because we’ve done some things up here that are not only set in stone, but I mean it’s different in the world of Hip-Hop. It’s a very positive vibe as opposed to the reputation that Hip-Hop gets. I don’t expect all that shit to echo through time after I’m dead.
I’m hoping that when people talk about Hip-Hop, and when they talk about live music, and when they talk about just the scene and the culture and all that shit up here, I hope that some people just keep that shit in mind. I know you guys don’t really know where I’m from, but Sturgeon Bay is a small town. Hip-Hop just has a bad rap from the events, to the musical content, and all that shit. So, I’m just hoping that we were able to open some eyes, set a little better example, and just get people in tune to the other side of Hip-Hop. But like I said, man, I don’t expect it to fucking linger too, too long after I’m dead. I don’t know if it will go on for generations and generations, but I know there’s some venues that still talk about some of the events we did and the shows we did. Some of our events have been experiences — not just shows to people – they’re memorable experiences. I know that shit’s talked about and I know that shit’s appreciated.
After they’re dead I don’t expect their children to fucking remember the story and everything. I feel we’ve done our part. My kids know it and they’re supportive of the music and stuff. Obviously, they don’t like all my music, which I don’t expect them to, but they’re pretty aware. They might not understand it yet at the age they’re at, but they’re pretty aware of some of the shit that we’ve done. They tell their friends about the YouTube channels, and the music videos. Their friends are sometimes in awe like, “Oh my God, your dad has music videos on YouTube” and all that shit, which is cool. It spreads it. It spreads the awareness especially in these modern times. For real, I don’t expect it to last forever. I’m sure the legacy will vanish eventually, but I feel like it’s made a good impact on the people who matter to me now. I’m happy about that shit, if that answers your question.
Da Cleaver: Man, that shit was deep though, for real.
Space Kase: I think about that shit all the time.
Da Cleaver: That’s how I feel, too. He said that nobody’s going to care, but the ones that are still here they’re going to remember you. Even there’s going to be a point in time where nobody’s going to remember because somebody that remembers you is going to be gone. But that’s the legacy that you leave — your seed, your family tree, your DNA. You have to leave them set up for them to accomplish things, and do things, and be curious about the universe, and just handle their biz and do what they got to do. My son now he wants to be playing around with the beats and stuff like that. It’s just stuff that you pass on like that and it’s deeper than the music shit, too.
TRHH: Will we see a sequel to Remedy?
Da Cleaver: We’ve been talking about that and I think it is going to happen. We just got to get right with Restless M.I.N.D. to provide the backdrops and see where we go from there. I know Space is a very, very busy man.
Space Kase: Yeah [laughs]. It is something we brought up even before we finished shopping Remedy. Are we gonna do this again? I believe we’re all interested. What I’m saying is, there’s definitely not a time frame in mind or anything like that. But it is something that we’re all interested in doing, so, I see it happening, for sure.
Da Cleaver: We’ve gotten great feedback and a lot of people are supporters, so, definitely something that they want to hear another go around maybe.
Purchase: Da Cleaver x Space Kase x Restless M.I.N.D. – Remedy