In early 2014 I had the opportunity to talk with two members of the Living Legends crew, The Grouch and Eligh. The duo had recently released and unprecedented triple album called, The Tortoise and the Crow.
The triple album contained a G&E joint album in addition to solo albums from each artist. The Tortoise and the Crow featured appearances by Slightly Stoopid, Kreayshawn, and Pigeon John.
The West Coast rhyming duo spoke about their 40-city North American tour, exceeding Hip-Hop’s boundaries, and their album, The Tortoise and the Crow.
TRHH: Explain the title of the new album, The Tortoise and the Crow.
The Grouch: The Tortoise and the Crow kind of represents the two sides of the artists in the group. I’m The Grouch and I’m represented by the tortoise. I rap a little bit more straight forward and slower than Eligh who is the crow. He raps in the double-time machine gun style. It’s also a concept of elevation. The tortoise is on the ground, the crow is in the air, and if you draw a line from the tortoise to the crow it’s like a diagonal line that represents constant elevation– Grouch and Eligh but also the GE stands for “good elevation.” It’s kind of like a yin and yang thing. Our styles complement each other and go with each other.
TRHH: Why did you guys decide to drop a triple album instead of dropping three separate albums?
Eligh: We had never seen it done before. The closest thing we saw was the Outkast double album a couple years ago. It was just an Andre album and a Big Boi album; there was no Outkast album together. The cool thing of no one ever doing it before was awesome and we thought it would excite our fans in a whole new way. We had the ammo at that point. Both of us had solo stuff going on when we started working on the G&E album. We thought we could keep making it happen and make it bigger than ever. We wanted to keep one upping ourselves and thought this would be the coolest way to do it.
TRHH: Were you surprised at how successful the Kickstarter for this project was?
Eligh: I personally was.
The Grouch: I was not. Initially we set our public goal for $50,000 and the reason why we set it there was we knew we were gonna hit it. With Kickstarter you have to hit your goal in order to be funded. I initially wanted to set the goal higher, but we chose to go with something that we knew our fans would support us on. We went with $50,000 and ended up with $90,000. It’s a testament to us that our fans really have a lot of love for us.
It’s something that I figured all along because even though we haven’t been using this Kickstarter platform, we’ve been independent artists in the game for quite a while. That’s how we make all our money, by our fans supporting us. We don’t start with any other company’s money. We’ve been successful in the past, I was feeling strong about this project, and knew that we would be able to do it again.
TRHH: Talk a little about the single “Run” with Pigeon John?
Eligh: What’s cool about that song is it’s just different from everything else on the album. A lot of the songs on G&E’s disc are so different from each other, yet they mesh so well. I went to stay with Grouch in Maui where he lives to make the album. I made that beat on the island and as soon as we wrote our verses we already knew we had to get Pigeon John on here. He happened to be on the island while I was staying there. We got him on the song and it was perfect – it made sense. I just feel like that song makes people feel good, period. That’s a big part of what we do. We want to make people feel things and hopefully in a positive way.
TRHH: You have a song with Kreayshawn on the album called “Hella Fresh.” She’s kind of polarizing in Hip-Hop circles. How’d you guys link up with her for that song?
The Grouch: Kreayshawn grew up in Oakland and I also grew up in Oakland, so I felt that bond right there. She gets a lot of flak for certain things. Everybody can have their own opinion about it. I see a lot of artists that not everybody agrees with and I try not to judge people. I work with people who I think are creative, period. And people who want to get their message out there and do different styles of music. Her style is a little bit different from ours, we come from the same place, and we all come from Hip-Hop. I just thought it would be a cool collaboration.
One day I reached out to her on Twitter. I didn’t know if she would respond or not and she responded saying she’s a big fan of Eligh’s and myself. She was down to do the collaboration. We actually know her management pretty well as well because we’re all from Oakland. We just hooked it up and went from there and liked how the song turned out. We liked how she sounded on it. We think her verse is really dope.
Eligh: Plus, we like to do different things. We like to do things where people are like, “You did a song with Kreayshawn? Really? That’s crazy! Why?” We just like doing that. We don’t wanna do what you think should be done on a song. We wanna go the opposite way. Sometimes songs call for specific people and we just go with that. We’re not scared. We wanna work with all kinds of different people.
The Grouch: Hip-Hop is about embracing differences. That’s what I believe.
TRHH: I’m tempted to go off of what you just said.
The Grouch: Feel free, feel free.
TRHH: I’m sure you guys have been following Lord Jamar from Brand Nubian..
The Grouch: You know what I’ve actually missed this whole thing. I’ve seen people talking about it but I don’t know what it’s about yet.
TRHH: He did a thing with VladTV and he was saying people like Kanye and Trinidad Jame$ are wearing dresses and no men should be wearing dresses in Hip-Hop. And then it turned into Macklemore’s “Same Love” song. He said Macklemore was trying to dictate the rules in Hip-Hop by saying Hip-Hop should accept homosexuality, but in reality, he’s white, therefore just a visitor and should not be trying to dictate what’s right and wrong in Hip-Hop. People have been going at him calling him old and stuff..
The Grouch: We respect Lord Jamar as a Hip-Hop figure just as we respect Macklemore as a Hip-Hop figure in this game. I can see where some of his ideas are rooted. I tend to think that everybody has their own voice and what they wanna say, so let everybody say it. Let Macklemore say what he wants to say. Let Lord Jamar say what he wants to say. There’s room in this for conversation and debate and hopefully it makes everybody stronger and more well-rounded at the end of the day. I don’t think there are any rules to Hip-Hop. I don’t believe in that. It started a certain way, it’s grown in certain ways, it’s taken turns, had ups and downs, and had additions and subtractions. I think all of that is welcome and a good thing.
Eligh: There’s no rules in music, period. That’s ridiculous. It doesn’t make sense to me.
TRHH: I thought the Macklemore song was great. There is a lot of homophobia in Hip-Hop. It’s 2014, I think we should move past it. At the same time, I can see where Lord Jamar is a 5%er…
The Grouch: Exactly.
Eligh: He’s bringing his religion into this. His background and religion is where that comes from to me.
TRHH: I think so, too. It’s always religion when it comes to people talking about homosexuality [laughs].
Eligh: This is the guy that used to say “faggot” every other word on Brand Nubian albums. He’s like the total opposite of Macklemore.
TRHH: I think his problem was Macklemore saying Hip-Hop should be ashamed and he’s like, “Who are you? You’re just some white dude that just got on.”
The Grouch: I can see him taking offense at that line. I can see both sides. But at the same time, as much as gays get downed in music, there’s women, too. That to me is just as much of an issue the way that women get viewed and treated in Hip-Hop.
TRHH: I’m 37, so in Hip-Hop years I guess I’m old. I’m getting to the point where I don’t wanna hear the n-word all the time in music. Before it was the norm I didn’t care. But today I’m like, really? Do we need to hear that again? I think I’m just evolving but radio Hip-Hop seems to be regressing.
The Grouch: Agreed. I agree with you.
TRHH: What’s your opinion on the resurgence of West Coast Hip-Hop?
Eligh: I think it’s beautiful. I think there are so many very good artists coming out of the West Coast, led by Kendrick Lamar and his crew. Kendrick Lamar’s album was one of the first albums in a long time that I bought and was just hooked. I was listening to it all the time. I was blown away by it and just so happy that somebody was pushing the boundaries and blowing up at a mainstream level — the beats, what he was talking about, and the whole feeling that I got from that album was just amazing. I know Grouch feels the same way. There’s a bunch of other people coming through in that vein and it’s pretty awesome to me, man. The West Coast needs to be represented again by somebody innovative, such as Kendrick Lamar.
The Grouch: I guess we’ve got Macklemore, Kendrick Lamar, Odd Future, and I think they all represent something very different – I think that’s cool. There are pretty strong camps coming out of the West Coast right now. I’m a Kendrick fan, but I’m not so much a fan of his whole crew personally — to each his own. The Odd Future thing is very interesting because they’re really young independent kids who are trying to be creative. They are very creative and they’re wild and alternative. I believe that Hip-Hop has no rules and should encompass all different voices, sorts of people, ideas, and different aspects. I like that all three of those artists that I mentioned are all completely different and doing as well as they are.
TRHH: What do you have in-store for fans that come out and see you on The Tortoise and the Crow tour?
Eligh: This tour in particular has been such an exchange of energy at the shows it’s literally we give you all we got. The crowds have had such good vibes. It’s good energy. It’s a party and a celebration of this album. People are feeling it with us and you can feel the energy being exchanged in the room. You’re going to be worn out, tired, sweaty, hot, and happy when you leave. That’s all I know.
The Grouch: We’re performing nine new songs off of our new projects. We’re also including many other songs that we’ve done in the past. We’re trying to encompass the best of The Grouch & Eligh in an hour and fifteen minutes. It’s been quite a road and it’s only been a few shows so far. The show keeps getting tighter and tighter every night. The crowd is giving back the energy that we’re giving to them and it just creates more energy in the room. I just feel like what you put out you get back even more and we can feel that.
TRHH: Who is The Tortoise and the Crow for?
Eligh: It’s for everybody. This is a worldwide project for us. We’re trying to reach as many people as possible. Since there is so much music on here and Grouch was saying earlier that anybody can find something that makes sense to them on this.
The Grouch: I’ve already been told that people’s grandparents like it. I’ve been told that people’s kids like it. So many different age ranges are into this album already. There are so many different textures to it that everyone can get something out of it. I was thinking the other day that I wanted to hip people to it who have no idea who The Grouch & Eligh are. I would like all of the people who are making a fuss over the Oxymoron Schoolboy Q album to have a chance to listen to our album and see this is a completely different project with a different perspective, there’s good music on it that I can feel as well. That’s what I would hope for.